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Да, такие инструкции в принципе элегантны.
Мне кажется, что они не только элегантны и не столько элеганты, они и есть шестишаговый рефрейминг. Типа они единственно верные, если только, конечно, за время после создания этой техники, не были произведены уточнения, сделанные на основе опыта.
Надо посмотреть, что об этом пишут Андреасы в "Сердце Разума" и что в "Технологии успеха". Но там общие пресуппозиции. Неконкретные, не ТебеТерапевтические.
Давай посмотрим. А то вот мне сейчас непонятно, что значит "неконкретные, не ТебеТерапевтические".
Мне кажется, что они не только элегантны и не столько элеганты, они и есть шестишаговый рефрейминг. Типа они единственно верные, если только, конечно, за время после создания этой техники, не были произведены уточнения, сделанные на основе опыта.
Надо посмотреть, что об этом пишут Андреасы в "Сердце Разума" и что в "Технологии успеха". Но там общие пресуппозиции. Неконкретные, не ТебеТерапевтические.
Давай посмотрим. А то вот мне сейчас непонятно, что значит "неконкретные, не ТебеТерапевтические".
Да, такие инструкции в принципе элегантны. Надо посмотреть, что об этом пишут Андреасы в "Сердце Разума" и что в "Технологии успеха". Но там общие пресуппозиции. Неконкретные, не ТебеТерапевтические.
vseslavrus -- Зачем ей еще новые варианты, если ее устраивают (= у нее работают) эти? Солить она их будет, что ли?
eugzol_lj -- Затем, что ТРИ новых варианта ей может быть мало. Она все варианты будет пробовать/использовать.
Где ты нашел информацию, что "ТРИ новых варианта ей может быть мало"?
eugzol_lj -- Затем, что ТРИ новых варианта ей может быть мало. Она все варианты будет пробовать/использовать.
Где ты нашел информацию, что "ТРИ новых варианта ей может быть мало"?
Затем, я объяснил еще и секрет гарантированного срабатывания рефрейминга: если в прежнем контексте вдруг начинает проявляться старое поведение Х, это значит, что невозможно использовать один из новых вариантов поведения — поменялся как-то контекст
Почему именно контекст поменялся? Просто новые варианты поведения оказались не эффективным в целях достижения положительного намерения. Про контекст ни слова.
ОК: Дик, и что же вы будете делать, если через шесть-семь недель снова
обнаружите, что проделываете стереотип Х? Что же вы предполагаете тогда
сделать? Вы можете принять это как сигнал того, что новые способы поведения,
к которым вы здесь пришли, были неадекватными тому намерению. Но вы сможете
вернуться к своей творческой части и дать ей инструкции изобрести еще три
новых способа. Стереотип поведения является барометром, указывающем на то,
насколько адекватными являются новые варианты. Если старое поведение
появляется после некоторого тестового периода времени, то это говорит о том,
что новые способы не более эффективны, нежели старые. Это сигнал к тому,
чтобы вы вернулись к этому процессу и создали новые варианты.
Регрессия к старому поведению -- это не сигнал неудачи, а сигнал
некомпетентности, и вы можете вернуться назад и зафиксировать это.
Переформирование сработает. Я гарантирую вам, что его поведение
измениться. Если оно через некоторое время станет прежним, то это означает,
что новые способы поведения менее эффективны, нежели Х в плане получения
чего-либо. Тогда он снова проходит через весь процесс, находит вторичную
выгоду и создает новые способы достижения этой выгоды.
Если вы не сделаете симптом, сказав об этом открыто, сигналом к
повторению процесса, то сознание пациента всегда назовет новое появление
симптома "неудача". Когда симптом идентифицируется как сигнал, то клиент
уделяет ему внимание как СООБЩЕНИЮ.
Хм. Я подумал, что может произойти, если контекст измениться. Но что-то полезного мне не прищло в голову ничего, только все усложнило.
Почему именно контекст поменялся? Просто новые варианты поведения оказались не эффективным в целях достижения положительного намерения. Про контекст ни слова.
ОК: Дик, и что же вы будете делать, если через шесть-семь недель снова
обнаружите, что проделываете стереотип Х? Что же вы предполагаете тогда
сделать? Вы можете принять это как сигнал того, что новые способы поведения,
к которым вы здесь пришли, были неадекватными тому намерению. Но вы сможете
вернуться к своей творческой части и дать ей инструкции изобрести еще три
новых способа. Стереотип поведения является барометром, указывающем на то,
насколько адекватными являются новые варианты. Если старое поведение
появляется после некоторого тестового периода времени, то это говорит о том,
что новые способы не более эффективны, нежели старые. Это сигнал к тому,
чтобы вы вернулись к этому процессу и создали новые варианты.
Регрессия к старому поведению -- это не сигнал неудачи, а сигнал
некомпетентности, и вы можете вернуться назад и зафиксировать это.
Переформирование сработает. Я гарантирую вам, что его поведение
измениться. Если оно через некоторое время станет прежним, то это означает,
что новые способы поведения менее эффективны, нежели Х в плане получения
чего-либо. Тогда он снова проходит через весь процесс, находит вторичную
выгоду и создает новые способы достижения этой выгоды.
Если вы не сделаете симптом, сказав об этом открыто, сигналом к
повторению процесса, то сознание пациента всегда назовет новое появление
симптома "неудача". Когда симптом идентифицируется как сигнал, то клиент
уделяет ему внимание как СООБЩЕНИЮ.
Хм. Я подумал, что может произойти, если контекст измениться. Но что-то полезного мне не прищло в голову ничего, только все усложнило.
Я до этого еще не читал "Несущие ветер". Посмотрел и, действительно, там тоже есть описание этой "игры в дрессировку" со свистком. Но впервые я о ней прочел именно в "Не рычите на собаку".
Совершенно верно. Очень хороши субмодальные вещи, если у тебя субмодальности б.м. воспринимаются. Вообще, тема достойная помещения в Оракула и без долгого ожидания проработки в специально созданной теме.
Exercise 3
I want you to take another ten minutes and do the same exercise that you did before in the same group of three. This time add the refinements that we have been talking about. Some time has passed since I described them, so I want to go back through them in detail. This time, rather than first describing the experience to the person, have him sit back and close his eyes, and begin by describing elements of his present experience. I want you to use three statements that are pacing statements—descriptions of verifiable experience. "You're sitting in a chair. . . . You can feel where your body touches the chair. . . . You can feel how your arms are crossed . . . where your foot touches the floor ... the temperature of your face ... the movement of your fingers. . . . You can hear the sounds in the room of other people moving. . . . You can feel the temperature of the air. . . . You can hear the sound of my voice. . , .
All of those statements can be verified. I want you to say three sentences that can be verified, and then I want you to attach something which is not readily verifiable. You can attach any statement that is a description of where you want them to go: ". . . and you're becoming more relaxed." ", . . as you continue to get more comfortable."
". . . and you don't know what I'm going to say next." So you make three pacing statements, use a transitional word, and add one statement that leads them in the direction you want them to go. "You are breathing, . . . There are sounds in the room. . . , You can hear people moving . . . and you wonder, really wonder, exactly what you're doing." Make the transitions sound as natural as possible. One of you will be the subject, and the other two will take turns saying a set of pacing and leading statements. After each of you has done two sets, I want you to begin to include descriptions of the same experience you used the first two times you did the exercise in your pacing and leading statements. ". . . while you take time and go back and think about when you were jogging." Notice how it's different this time.
Again, it will help if you pace nonverbally: breathe at the same rate as the person you're talking to, or use the tempo of your voice to match his breathing. And it's essential that what you say is congruent with how you say it.
When your subject appears to be into the experience as deeply or deeper than he was before, I want you to start violating these principles, one at a time. Suddenly make your voice tempo totally different.
Notice whether or not that has an impact. Then go back to what you were doing before, and then change your tone. Then try not using transitions. "You're sitting there. You're comfortable. You're relaxed. You don't know what's going to happen." Notice what happens when you do that. Try adding things that are not relevant, "You can feel your fingers on the keys . . . and you know that there's a kitchen somewhere in this building." "You can feel your feet against the floor . . . and you feel the enthusiasm and interest of politicians in Washington."
Concentrate first on using all the elements that we have discussed. When you have established a good solid state, vary just one little piece and notice what happens. Then go back to using all the elements and then vary another little piece. Notice what happens to the person's face, to her breathing, to her skin color, to her lower lip size, to the movement of her eyelids. People don't talk much in trance, so you're going to have to get your feedback in other ways. If you check it out afterwards, it will be too late. You have to be able to check it out while it's going on at each moment, and the best tool to do that with is going to be your vision.
Take three or four minutes each to do this. Go ahead.
I want you to take another ten minutes and do the same exercise that you did before in the same group of three. This time add the refinements that we have been talking about. Some time has passed since I described them, so I want to go back through them in detail. This time, rather than first describing the experience to the person, have him sit back and close his eyes, and begin by describing elements of his present experience. I want you to use three statements that are pacing statements—descriptions of verifiable experience. "You're sitting in a chair. . . . You can feel where your body touches the chair. . . . You can feel how your arms are crossed . . . where your foot touches the floor ... the temperature of your face ... the movement of your fingers. . . . You can hear the sounds in the room of other people moving. . . . You can feel the temperature of the air. . . . You can hear the sound of my voice. . , .
All of those statements can be verified. I want you to say three sentences that can be verified, and then I want you to attach something which is not readily verifiable. You can attach any statement that is a description of where you want them to go: ". . . and you're becoming more relaxed." ", . . as you continue to get more comfortable."
". . . and you don't know what I'm going to say next." So you make three pacing statements, use a transitional word, and add one statement that leads them in the direction you want them to go. "You are breathing, . . . There are sounds in the room. . . , You can hear people moving . . . and you wonder, really wonder, exactly what you're doing." Make the transitions sound as natural as possible. One of you will be the subject, and the other two will take turns saying a set of pacing and leading statements. After each of you has done two sets, I want you to begin to include descriptions of the same experience you used the first two times you did the exercise in your pacing and leading statements. ". . . while you take time and go back and think about when you were jogging." Notice how it's different this time.
Again, it will help if you pace nonverbally: breathe at the same rate as the person you're talking to, or use the tempo of your voice to match his breathing. And it's essential that what you say is congruent with how you say it.
When your subject appears to be into the experience as deeply or deeper than he was before, I want you to start violating these principles, one at a time. Suddenly make your voice tempo totally different.
Notice whether or not that has an impact. Then go back to what you were doing before, and then change your tone. Then try not using transitions. "You're sitting there. You're comfortable. You're relaxed. You don't know what's going to happen." Notice what happens when you do that. Try adding things that are not relevant, "You can feel your fingers on the keys . . . and you know that there's a kitchen somewhere in this building." "You can feel your feet against the floor . . . and you feel the enthusiasm and interest of politicians in Washington."
Concentrate first on using all the elements that we have discussed. When you have established a good solid state, vary just one little piece and notice what happens. Then go back to using all the elements and then vary another little piece. Notice what happens to the person's face, to her breathing, to her skin color, to her lower lip size, to the movement of her eyelids. People don't talk much in trance, so you're going to have to get your feedback in other ways. If you check it out afterwards, it will be too late. You have to be able to check it out while it's going on at each moment, and the best tool to do that with is going to be your vision.
Take three or four minutes each to do this. Go ahead.
Общая для всех проблема. Если сфокусировать внимание на своей щеке и так его там и держать - через неделю там выскочит прыщ. Для аптайма требуется внимание, которое целиком типа вышло наружу.
Exercise I
I'm going to ask you to get into groups of three people. I want one of you, person A, to think of something that fits the following description; a situation in which you become deeply involved, with a limited focus of attention. For some people that's jogging; for others it's reading a book. It might be writing, watching television, going to the movies, driving your car on a long trip—anything which fits that description.
If you're A, I want you to tell the other two in your group, B and C, what the experience is. Give them only the name of the experience: jogging, sailing—just a word. If you give them too much detail, it makes it too easy for them. Just give them a word, sit back and close your eyes, and pretend that you're in hypnosis—it's all pretend anyway. I want the other two people to describe what they believe would have to be there in sensory terms if you were having that experience. The magic words are "have to" because if someone is jogging and you say the bright sun is shining down on your body, that doesn't have to be there. People can jog at night, or on a cloudy day. However, they do have to have some skin temperature. So you're going to have to be artfully vague. I want B and C to take turns saying two sentences or phrases each. One will say "You can feel the temperature of the air on your body, and the place where your foot touches the ground." The other one might say "You notice the beating of your heart. You can feel the temperature of your skin." Those are experiences that have to be there.
I'm not going to give you any more description than that to begin with. I want you each to take a turn, and I want you to observe the person who has his eyes closed, and notice how he responds to what you say. When you are the person sitting there with your eyes closed, I want you to notice which things allow you to get into the experience more, and which things make it more difficult. I'm going to leave it at that and have you use your own experience as a teacher. Let's start.
Take about five minutes each.
I'm going to ask you to get into groups of three people. I want one of you, person A, to think of something that fits the following description; a situation in which you become deeply involved, with a limited focus of attention. For some people that's jogging; for others it's reading a book. It might be writing, watching television, going to the movies, driving your car on a long trip—anything which fits that description.
If you're A, I want you to tell the other two in your group, B and C, what the experience is. Give them only the name of the experience: jogging, sailing—just a word. If you give them too much detail, it makes it too easy for them. Just give them a word, sit back and close your eyes, and pretend that you're in hypnosis—it's all pretend anyway. I want the other two people to describe what they believe would have to be there in sensory terms if you were having that experience. The magic words are "have to" because if someone is jogging and you say the bright sun is shining down on your body, that doesn't have to be there. People can jog at night, or on a cloudy day. However, they do have to have some skin temperature. So you're going to have to be artfully vague. I want B and C to take turns saying two sentences or phrases each. One will say "You can feel the temperature of the air on your body, and the place where your foot touches the ground." The other one might say "You notice the beating of your heart. You can feel the temperature of your skin." Those are experiences that have to be there.
I'm not going to give you any more description than that to begin with. I want you each to take a turn, and I want you to observe the person who has his eyes closed, and notice how he responds to what you say. When you are the person sitting there with your eyes closed, I want you to notice which things allow you to get into the experience more, and which things make it more difficult. I'm going to leave it at that and have you use your own experience as a teacher. Let's start.
Take about five minutes each.
Exercise 2
Soon I'm going to ask you to do the same thing again, only this time I want you to restrict yourself to descriptions of what must be there in sensory experience and to be non-specific. If you say "You can hear the splash of the water" and the person is underwater, it won't work. But you can say "You can hear the sounds that the water makes" because there will be some sounds.
This time I'd like you to add one other important piece: I'd like you to have a steady voice tempo and use the other person's breathing as the speed. . . and rate . . . and the pace ... of the speech . . . that you generate. Matching someone's breathing with anything in your behavior—whether it's your own breathing rate, the tempo of your speech, or anything else—has a very powerful impact. Try it and find out what impact it has. I want you to use the same experience and keep the same groups. Take two minutes apiece and don't talk about it. It should take eight to ten minutes at most for everybody in your group to do it. Notice if it feels different this time.
Дочитали до конца.