http://community.livejournal.com/metapractice/257967.htmlMilton Erickson 1952 U.C.L.A 01Milton Erickson 1952 U.C.L.A 01Now, my topic for this afternoon is … eh … control of physiological functions by hypnosis. And I'm also enlisted later for hypnotic approaches in therapy. Actually, of course, I have a feeling that it is rather difficult thing to do because in any approach to physiological control one also makes use of therapeutic approaches also. And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation or to try to make a [00:47 – 00:48] lecture on the subject. Both topics involve a question of techniques and the both concern with the adequate functioning of the individual as the personality and his functioning in a desired manner. [01:10]Milton Erickson 1955 Philadelphia 1 - Misconceptiions & phenomenaMilton Erickson 1955 Philadelphia 1 - Misconceptiions & phenomena[до этого идет приветствие, речь МЭ начинается на 0:40]One of the first misconceptions that I want to mention is not listed in your booklet. And that is this. Misconception that you can learn hypnosis from a stage hypnotist. You can learn hypnotist from a stage hypnotist, if you want to work on the stage, but if you want to do medical work or dental work or psychological work, I don’t think that you can learn from a stage hypnotist. It requires a great deal of study in earnest effort and sincere effort on your part.Another misconception that I want to mention isn’t included is (that) anybody who uses hypnosis must have some very special powers, special knowledge, special abilities. Actually, of course, hypnosis is a very common phenomenon in all human living, and anybody who can communicate with somebody else, can use hypnosis. Anybody, that can communicate with somebody else, can learn hypnosis and utilize it.[02:01]Milton Erickson 1958 Pasadena Track 1Milton Erickson 1958 Pasadena Track 1[до этого идет приветствие, речь МЭ начинается на 0:09]Now hypnosis is a phenomenon, that requires participation and I'm gonna ask participation of the part of the audience. The part of your instruction, part of your training should include some efforts on you required to learn and to practice. Now, I'm not going to try to teach you medicine or any of the specialties of any sort. I made mention this specialty or that specialty or this field of medicine or another. But I want you to realize that hypnosis is a technique [0:52 – 0:54] ...lty as approach to the patient. And that I expect you to have that amount of medical knowledge [1:02 – 1:03] for you to practice your own field. And that you use hypnosis to facilitate the contact with the patient to enable a patient to comprehend you better and to motivate your patient in the acceptance of medical care and guidance and advice and instruction. The hypnosis is primarily a method of communicating ideas to people. In hypnosis you establish upon the person into a trance eh state of receptiveness to the ideas and as they are receptive to the ideas then they become responsive to the ideas.Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 1Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 1Too often in working with patient you politely try not to notice his resistance, you politely try to overlook it and to pretend that it isn't there. But do you treat your patient that way [0:20 – 0:22 – три слова непонятны] do you ever pretend that your patient hasn't got a [0:25-0:26] …cological review, do you ever pretend that you OB patient isn't pregnant, why should you pretend that your resistant patient isn't resistant? You ought to accept their resistance as one of the things they bring into the office. And since they brought it, you ought to use it. You are put to willing to use their eyes, you are put to willing to use their ears [0:50 – 0:55 – не уверен насчет put], their mouth, why not use their ressistance? And so, usually dealing with the ressistant patient, you recognize that they're resistant. [1.07]Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 2Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 2Now this question of double-bind. I think it's awfully important that you exercise that double-bind in your therapy. Because why it's called a “double-bind”, it is a measure of getting your patient to test [taste? - 0:24 – 0:25] the issues at hand, because too often your patient is unwilling to face the issues. I think of one woman oh eh complained about a lump in her breast. That I think there were some 56 different positions she consulted, and that all advised her to go into the hospital and have her breast operate on. [01:01]Milton Erickson 1962 San Diego – That which occurs withinMilton Erickson 1962 San Diego – That which occurs withinBut eh this time I'd like to take up certain other things that should be of interest to you. … [обрезка, запись внезапно начинается] this matter of the use of hypnosis I find as an editor of a journal that I am having a tremendous amount of competition. I find that the American Journal of Proctology is not publishing articles on hypnosis I would like to publish. The Journal of Anes... ehm Dermatology is publishing articles on hypnosis. In fact all of the various medical journals eh publishing increasingly a large number of articles on hypnosis. And in spite of the hostility eh of general medical profession, especially in the older ranks, and the hostility of the dental profession the entrenched members of dental profession and the psychological profession hypnosis is beginning to spread increasingly. [0:01:18]Milton Erickson 1962 San Diego – Common sense suggestionMilton Erickson 1962 San Diego – Common sense suggestionI've been asked to come in on several things. One of them is this matter of imaginary allergy. Wherein the patient tells you that he has a severe allergic response, when you know that it's not chemically possible for him to have a severe allergic response. Over (?) the experience of one of my friends eh in decades that one should take seriously this question of idiosyncrasy for drugs. One of my friends when he sustained practice in medicine wrote up prescription for aspirine for a patient. [01:02]
But I want you to realize that hypnosis is a technique [0:52 – 0:54] ...lty as approach to the patient.A technique, a methodology, and approach to the patient.
But do you treat your patient that way [0:20 – 0:22 – три слова непонятны]In other regards?That I think there were some 56 different positions she consulted and that all...26 different physicians she consulted and they all...
No, I cut these fragments right from the files on the CD you sent me.___________________Нет, я вырезал эти фрагменты прямо из файлов с того диска, который вы мне прислали.
Для настройки восприятия интонаций голоса возможны две достаточно продуктивные техники:--первая техника есть настроить свой голос точно на высоту голоса Эриксона. Далее, делайте нечто вроде эээ караоке с голосом Э., стараясь просто повторить манеру его звучания. Тут-то вы начинаете осознавать движения его основного тона голоса. Или интонации. Вы еще не замечаете их точно. Но, вы их способны осознать.--вторая техника есть выслушивание клипов с голосом Э. абсолютно беззвучно с вашей стороны. Но, при этом одной рукой вы пробуете как бы дирижировать голосом Э. Неважно, что вы это делаете по-началу наугад. С какого-то раза вы услышите настоящее движение интонации голоса Э.
metanymous wrote:To tune up the perception of intonations one may use two rather efficient techniques:--one technique is adjusting your own voice to the level of Erickson's pitch. Then try kind of karaoke with Erickson's voice, trying to duplicate his manner of speaking. At this point you shall start getting aware of pitch changes of his regular speech tone. Or the changes in intonations. You can not identify them clearly yet. But you are able to become aware of them.--second technique is one's listening to recordings of Erickson's speech and being absolutely mute. And during this you try to conduct Erickson's voice. It's not important if you try to do it by guess-work at first. At some try you'll hear the real change in Erickson's voice intonations.
metanymous wrote:The sound of speech in the recordings is significantly filtered. It turned out to impose great difficulties on identification of intonations.
American Journal of Proctology is not publishing articles on hypnosis...is now publishing articles...medical journals eh publishing increasingly a large number of articles...journals are publishing...
Milton Erickson 1952 U.C.L.A 01Now, my topic for this afternoon is … eh … control of physiological functions by hypnosis. And I'm also enlisted later for hypnotic approaches in therapy. Actually, of course, I have a feeling that it is rather difficult thing to do because in any approach to physiological control one also makes use of therapeutic approaches also. And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation or to try to make a [00:47 – 00:48] lecture on the subject. Both topics involve a question of techniques and the both concern with the adequate functioning of the individual as the personality and his functioning in a desired manner. [01:10]Milton Erickson 1955 Philadelphia 1 - Misconceptiions & phenomena[до этого идет приветствие, речь МЭ начинается на 0:40]One of the first misconceptions that I want to mention is not listed in your booklet. And that is this. Misconception that you can learn hypnosis from a stage hypnotist. You can learn hypnotist from a stage hypnotist, if you want to work on the stage, but if you want to do medical work or dental work or psychological work, I don’t think that you can learn from a stage hypnotist. It requires a great deal of study in earnest effort and sincere effort on your part.Another misconception that I want to mention isn’t included is (that) anybody who uses hypnosis must have some very special powers, special knowledge, special abilities. Actually, of course, hypnosis is a very common phenomenon in all human living, and anybody who can communicate with somebody else, can use hypnosis. Anybody, that can communicate with somebody else, can learn hypnosis and utilize it.[02:01]Milton Erickson 1958 Pasadena Track 1[до этого идет приветствие, речь МЭ начинается на 0:09]Now hypnosis is a phenomenon, that requires participation and I'm gonna ask participation of the part of the audience. The part of your instruction, part of your training should include some efforts on you required to learn and to practice. Now, I'm not going to try to teach you medicine or any of the specialties of any sort. I made mention this specialty or that specialty or this field of medicine or another. But I want you to realize that hypnosis is a technique, a methodology and approach to the patient. And that I expect you to have that amount of medical knowledge requisite for you to practice your own field. And that you use hypnosis to facilitate the contact with the patient to enable a patient to comprehend you better and to motivate your patient in the acceptance of medical care and guidance and advice and instruction. The hypnosis is primarily a method of communicating ideas to people. In hypnosis you establish upon the person into a trance eh state of receptiveness to the ideas and as they are receptive to the ideas then they become responsive to the ideas.Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 1Too often in working with patient you politely try not to notice his resistance, you politely try to overlook it and to pretend that it isn't there. But do you treat your patient that way [0:20 – 0:22 – три слова непонятны] do you ever pretend that your patient hasn't got a gynaecological review, do you ever pretend that you OB patient isn't pregnant, why should you pretend that your resistant patient isn't resistant? You ought to accept their resistance as one of the things they bring into the office. And since they brought it, you ought to use it. You are put to willing to use their eyes, you are put to willing to use their ears [0:50 – 0:55 – не уверен насчет put], their mouth, why not use their ressistance? And so, usually dealing with the ressistant patient, you recognize that they're resistant. [1.07]
Milton Erickson 1960 Chicago 2Now this question of double-bind. I think it's awfully important that you exercise that double-bind in your therapy. Because why it's called a “double-bind”, it is a measure of getting your patient to face the issues at hand, because too often your patient is unwilling to face the issues. I think of one woman oh eh complained about a lump in her breast. And I think there were some 26 different physicians she consulted, and that all advised her to go into the hospital and have her breast operate on. [01:01]Milton Erickson 1962 San Diego – That which occurs withinBut eh this time I'd like to take up certain other things that should be of interest to you. … [обрезка, запись внезапно начинается] this matter of the use of hypnosis I find as an editor of a journal that I am having a tremendous amount of competition. I find that the American Journal of Proctology is now publishing articles on hypnosis I would like to publish. The Journal of Anes... ehm Dermatology is publishing articles on hypnosis. In fact all of the various medical journals are publishing increasingly a large number of articles on hypnosis. And in spite of the hostility eh of general medical profession, especially in the older ranks, and the hostility of the dental profession the entrenched members of dental profession and the psychological profession hypnosis is beginning to spread increasingly. [0:01:18]Milton Erickson 1962 San Diego – Common sense suggestionI've been asked to come in on several things. One of them is this matter of imaginary allergy. Wherein the patient tells you that he has a severe allergic response, when you know that it's not chemically possible for him to have a severe allergic response. Over (?) the experience of one of my friends eh in decades that one should take seriously this question of idiosyncrasy for drugs. One of my friends when he sustained practice in medicine wrote up prescription for aspirine for a patient. [01:02]
Лучше делать разметку скупыми средствами прямо в браузере жж. И без цветов. Интонации будем обозначать, например, так: (/\)слова слова слова. Где домик в скобках показывает буквальное движение интонации, а подчеркивание - группу слов, на которые данная интонация распространяется.
Пробую в точности повторять/отзеркаливать голос Эриксона собственным. Через короткое время (< 10 мин) начинает болеть горло справа. Складывается впечатление, что я как-то ээ не так напрягаю его (вследствие чего пере-напрягаю), чтобы "вытянуть" интонации. Может есть какие-то хитрые рекомендации, как правильно высотой тона, чисто на мышечном уровне, управлять?
rbb74 wrote:According to which rules does one make a notation? What instruments should I use? Now I'm making it by writing with coloured pencils over printed transcripts.Can I post the image of my notation here?
metanymous replied:You should better make a notation with browser's humble means. In black-and-white font. We can show the intonations, for example, this way: (/\) words words words. Where (/\) expresses the literal movement of the intonation, and underline points at a group of words embraced with this intonation.
Пробую в точности повторять/отзеркаливать голос Эриксона собственным. Через короткое время (< 10 мин) начинает болеть горло справа. Складывается впечатление, что я как-то ээ не так напрягаю его (вследствие чего пере-напрягаю), чтобы "вытянуть" интонации.Ты просто не улавливаешь точную высоту его голоса и от этого идет перенапряг.Может есть какие-то хитрые рекомендации, как правильно высотой тона, чисто на мышечном уровне, управлять?Простая тренировка - озвучивать играющие/звучащие песни, стараясь быть точным по высоте звучания с голосом певца/певицы.
я раньше тренировал интонации.1. Текст и каждое слово делал понижение_повышение_понижение и т.д2. Детские стихи, делал разметку и добивался точного попадания.3. Тоже во фразах а)домиком б)волной в)провал г)понижение д)повышениеЭто дает возможность понять/почувствовать напряжение мышц при изменении собственной интонации.И песни стараясь быть точным по высоте звучания с голосом певца/певицы.Типа подражать.
В тренировке интонаций есть два явных аспекта:--тренировка для тебе экспрессии - для выдачи во вне - для (как мы это называем) операторского воздействия--и тренировка в восприятии - в том как другие озвучивают интонации (в теме данного топика это интонации Эриксона)...так вот, для тебе экспрессии требуется в интонации "домиком" делать этот домик асимметричным. Довольно быстрый подъем интонации на первом же ударном слоге и затем равномерное ее опускание.
...так вот, для тебе экспрессии требуется в интонации "домиком" делать этот домик асимметричным. Довольно быстрый подъем интонации на первом же ударном слоге и затем равномерное ее опускание. Здесь асимметричность как усилитель?Непривычный подъем на 1 уд. слоге, уже 4 дня отрабатываю, такое умение.
Здесь асимметричность не усилитель. С таким асимметричным распределением интонации удобнее ею управлять в целом. Потому что для интонации "домиком" очень важно не опустить ее раньше времени (раньше звучания конца выделенных для нее слов) ниже уровня, за которым потребуется для компенсации поднимать эту интонацию вверх. И тем нарушать ее исходный рисунок - простым "домиком".
С асимметричностью понятно, но пока идет с трудом:)Я правильно понимаю, что важны:а)уровни сами по себе(т.е фразы/слова на том или ином уровне)б)само понижение/повышениев)повышение/понижение до определенного уровняЭто присутствует в речи 1952 года, Э. придерживается уровней.
Milton Erickson 1952 U.C.L.A 01Now, my (/)topic for(\) this (/)afternoon(\) is … eh … (/)control of physiological functions (\)by hypnosis.And I'm also enlisted later for (/)hypnotic approaches (\) in therapy.(/)Actually, of course, (\) I have a(/) feeling that it is rather difficult thing (\) to do?? because in (/)any (\)approach to (/)physiological (\)control (/)one also makes use of(\) so (/)therapeutic approaches (\)also.And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation(\) or to(/) try (\)to make a (/) [00:47 – 00:48] lecture(\) on the subject.(/)Both topics involve a question of techniques (\)and the (/)both (\)concern with the (/)adequate functioning of the individual as the (\)personality (\)??and his (/)functioningin a desired (\)manner. [01:10]
/\/\ Now, my topic for this afternoon is/\ сontrol of physiological functions by hypnosis./\ And I'm also enlisted later for a/\ hypnotic approaches to therapy.
/\ Actually, of course/\ I have a feeling, that that is/\/ rather difficult thing to do? because in any approach to\/ physiological control/\ one also makes use of a/\ therapeutic approach also
/\ And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation- or/\ to try to make a/\ deviate pet lecture on the subject/\ Both topics involve a question of techniques
/\ And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation/\ to try to make a/\ deviate pet lecture on the subject/\ Both topics involve a question of techniques
Now, my (/\)topic for this(/\)afternoon is … eh … (/\)control of physiological functions by hypnosis.And I'm also enlisted later for (/\)hypnotic approaches in therapy.(/\)Actually, of course, I have a(/\) feeling that it is rather difficult thing to do?? because in (/\)any approach to(/\)physiological control (/\)one also makes use of so (/\)therapeutic approaches also.And so I'm not really going to try to make a differentiation(?) or to(/\) try to make a (/\) lecture on the subject.(/\)Both topics involve a question of techniques and the (/)both concern with the (/\)adequate functioning of the individual as the personality (?) and his (/\)functioningin a desired manner.
Сразу прошу прошения, за вопросы. Обсуждение не нашел.Варианты:1. Повышение на слове/фразе и поддержание этого уровня на других словах до паузы.2. Начало предложения на другом уровне, выше/ниже чем предыдущее. Без повышения/понижения.3. Повышение - поддержание - понижение4. Повышение-понижение (сразу, без поддержания уровня)5. Повышение до конца слова, а следующее начинается на другом уровне ниже/выше6. Поэтапное понижение НА слове, но несколько раз7. Понижение резкое по слову, ступенькой.....Что из этого домик? пп.3?Что есть домик?Что отмечать? Как разделять? Мы слушаем понижение/повышение, но какое из этих нас интересует больше всего?В приведенной речи, есть много из того, что описал.
Сразу прошу прошения, за вопросы. Обсуждение не нашел. Варианты:1. Повышение на слове/фразе и поддержание этого уровня на других словах до паузы.Это была, скорее всего одна простая повышающаяся интонация.2. Начало предложения на другом уровне, выше/ниже чем предыдущее.Это на не интересует. Ну, т.е. не в этом типе анализа.Без повышения/понижения.Такого не бывает :)3. Повышение - поддержание - понижениеЭто "домик".4. Повышение-понижение (сразу, без поддержания уровня)Домик.5. Повышение до конца слова,Повышение.а следующее начинается на другом уровне ниже/вышеНачало другой интонации.6. Поэтапное понижение НА слове, но несколько раз"Ступеньки" - есть такое, но сейчас мы это не анализируем.7. Понижение резкое по слову, ступенькой.Супенька бывает такая отрывистая - как по слогам/словам. И бывает протяжная. Если ступенька протяжная, то это сложение двух интонаций:--ступеньки--понижение_на_распевЧто из этого домик? пп.3?Конкретнее.Что есть домик?Повышение и понижение ОДНОЙ ИНТОНАЦИИ. Вообще-то это есть старая добрая "повествовательная" интонация.Что отмечать? Как разделять? Мы слушаем понижение/повышение, но какое из этих нас интересует больше всего?Как размечать я указал достаточно четко. Нас интересует ВСЯ ГРУППА СЛОВ, попавших в домик.В приведенной речи, есть много из того, что описал.Само собой.
Повышение и понижение ОДНОЙ ИНТОНАЦИИ. Вообще-то это есть старая добрая "повествовательная" интонация.Что отмечать? Как разделять? Мы слушаем понижение/повышение, но какое из этих нас интересует больше всего?Как размечать я указал достаточно четко. Нас интересует ВСЯ ГРУППА СЛОВ, попавших в домик.Ок