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Re: Мне тоже всегда интересен был данный факт.... ↑
ex_ancorv в посте Openmeta (оригинал в ЖЖ)
http://tzone.kulichki.com/anomal/os/sleep.html
>Бехетерва вообще считает, что люди спят потому, что раньше ночью делать все равно нечего было:)))
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Не согласен. Есть много физиологических процессов, которые организм в общем и мозг в частности способен выполнять только в состоянии сна. В частности некоторые компоненты медиаторного обмена, прежде всего серотонинового. Это подтверждено многими опытами по депривации сна.
Я полагаю, что природная способность того или иного человека "высыпаться" за более долгий или более краткий период времени частично зависит от скорости течения этих самых процессов...
12 комментариев
сначала старые сначала новые
я и не спорю, там смайлики :) я тоже читала. но как мне кажется, экмперимент не чистый. ведь мы с рождения знаем, что нужно спать. а психологию в таком тонком деле отвергать нельзя :))
кстати, одним из признаков одаренности детей признается тьо, что они с рождения мало спят
кстати, одним из признаков одаренности детей признается тьо, что они с рождения мало спят
Я полагаю, что природная способность того или иного человека "высыпаться"
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Трудно говорить о природной способности высыпаться. На поверхности очень сильная зависимось способности высыпаться от конгруэнтности, которая присуща человеку. А та на 70% детерминирована ранней личной историей.
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Трудно говорить о природной способности высыпаться. На поверхности очень сильная зависимось способности высыпаться от конгруэнтности, которая присуща человеку. А та на 70% детерминирована ранней личной историей.
одним из признаков одаренности детей признается тьо, что они с рождения мало спят
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Это может быть простой признак, что с родителями таких детей в психологическом смысле все в порядке :)
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Это может быть простой признак, что с родителями таких детей в психологическом смысле все в порядке :)
а каким образом конгруэтность детерминируется ранней личной историей?
А вот я знаю человека с такой историей. Когда-то он учился в НГУ на физфаке. Потом тихо зашизовал. Потом получил официальный диагноз/инвалидность. В таком качестве потихоньку старится в настоящее время. С ним пытались безрезультатно работать психологи. Его вырастила дурная бабка. Все его детство она делала такой трюк
--будила
--в момент когда он открывал глаза выплескивала ему в лицо кружку ледяной воды (частный дом - прямо из бочки со льдом)
В остальном она была обычная бабка.
С это кружкой ледяной воды в момент пробуждения не смогли справится никакие техники психологии.
Вот в этом смысле :)
--будила
--в момент когда он открывал глаза выплескивала ему в лицо кружку ледяной воды (частный дом - прямо из бочки со льдом)
В остальном она была обычная бабка.
С это кружкой ледяной воды в момент пробуждения не смогли справится никакие техники психологии.
Вот в этом смысле :)
а у меня в крайнее время чего-то "сцены из детства", о которых я успел забыть, *всплывать стали. И что с ними делать не понятно.
а у меня в крайнее время чего-то "сцены из детства", о которых я успел забыть, *всплывать стали. И что с ними делать не понятно.
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Сам процесс очень естественный результат развития/практик (что-то вроде спонтанного перепросмотра):
--+К-образы *коллекционируешь и *развешиваешь на стенах галлереи памяти. Можешь поощрать субстрат ПоВейку-Прайор-Скиннеру за такие вспоминания (http://www.livejournal.com/community/openmeta/81012.html)
-- -К-образы перерабатывашь - самое простое - собираешь их на дневной якорь, а перед сном - СебеEMDR-ируешь
Вообще принципы сортировки памяти очень важная тема развития - ее можно обсудить отдельно/специально.
____________________________
Сам процесс очень естественный результат развития/практик (что-то вроде спонтанного перепросмотра):
--+К-образы *коллекционируешь и *развешиваешь на стенах галлереи памяти. Можешь поощрать субстрат ПоВейку-Прайор-Скиннеру за такие вспоминания (http://www.livejournal.com/community/openmeta/81012.html)
-- -К-образы перерабатывашь - самое простое - собираешь их на дневной якорь, а перед сном - СебеEMDR-ируешь
Вообще принципы сортировки памяти очень важная тема развития - ее можно обсудить отдельно/специально.
а как СебеEMDR делать? помню, что где-то видел, а найти не могу.
Дак вот наверху посмотри :)
http://www.livejournal.com/community/openmeta/82175.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/openmeta/82175.html
Высказываю желание обсудить отдельно принципы сортировки памяти :)
У меня есть опыт делания нечто похожего, когда я на себе проверял, как работает Дианетика. Там люди часами вспоминают по очереди то положительные воспоминания, то отрицательные. Причем в каждом упражнении свой тип положительности и отрицательности.
Сначала всплывают стандартные эпизоды прошлого, потом начинаешь удивляться обьему своей памяти, потом уже воспринимаешь большинство вещей без особых эмоций.
У меня есть опыт делания нечто похожего, когда я на себе проверял, как работает Дианетика. Там люди часами вспоминают по очереди то положительные воспоминания, то отрицательные. Причем в каждом упражнении свой тип положительности и отрицательности.
Сначала всплывают стандартные эпизоды прошлого, потом начинаешь удивляться обьему своей памяти, потом уже воспринимаешь большинство вещей без особых эмоций.
1.2.3. Constructive memory (The Special Algorithm of
Restructuring the Work of Memory)
Dr. Erickson wrote (R. Havens, The Wisdom of Milton H. Erickson, p. 67): "Yet as a result of experiential events of his past life, there has been built up within his body - although all unrecognized - certain psychological, physiological, and neurological learnings, associations".
In Dr. Erickson’s work with Monde we see how special sequence of suggestions guarantees the resourceful memory operation. This sequence generally restructures the work of memory so that it becomes a universal resource for the person, that is an indirect suggestion of how the memory should work in life. Obviously, it is not possible to get into emotional or mental troubles for the person whose memory works as a stable positive resource.
When Dr. Erickson suggests Monde to recall a particular event from her past he does that in such a manner that delivers a metaphorical meaning: "Make your memory work according to certain criterions, make it to be such and such and then all your problems will be resolved automatically". When the criterions are presented one after another they get summarized and compose a special formula. So, what are those criterions? They are sequenced in the fragments 4 – 8 of the transcript? We offer you the words from the transcript in their original sequence and before there are the criterions that are embodied in those words.
fragment 4
* The first mention of the memory, the words "can deal" point that the person should work and be not passive but active:
... so that your unconscious can deal with that vast store of memories that you have ...
* The suggestion that at any moment the memory should serve for well-being of the person, it should make the person comfortable but quite realistically:
... I'd like to have you feel very comfortable and while you are in the trance I would like to have you feel coolness not too cold but just coolness ( pause) just enough coolness so that you might want it to get just a bit warmer ...
fragment 5
* Analogy between memory and a highway that means that the memory should be structured as a road - uninterrupted, sequenced, there is a beginning point and a goal, there can be a stop but not for long, being at the road we can look around, at the road people are moving actively, etc.:
... it is as if you are traveling a highway passing this scene, that scene in your life ...
* From this point the criterions are appearing one by one. And the very first is that the memory should be positive emotionally:
... and perhaps something very nice that you could recall
* The second criterion is the ecological one, the memory should be free of the latest associations:
... that you haven't thought about for years ...
* The third criterion is that there should be a sense of interest - a special mental and emotional state:
... it'd be most interesting if you would find
* The fourth criterion is the time frame:
... some childhood infantile memory ...
* The second criterion is repeated:
... that you haven't thought of for years ...
* An example and an indirect suggestion of the fifth criterion - the memory should be about some event where the subject was active, growing and developing as a human-being:
... such as the time when you discovered you could stand up
Restructuring the Work of Memory)
Dr. Erickson wrote (R. Havens, The Wisdom of Milton H. Erickson, p. 67): "Yet as a result of experiential events of his past life, there has been built up within his body - although all unrecognized - certain psychological, physiological, and neurological learnings, associations".
In Dr. Erickson’s work with Monde we see how special sequence of suggestions guarantees the resourceful memory operation. This sequence generally restructures the work of memory so that it becomes a universal resource for the person, that is an indirect suggestion of how the memory should work in life. Obviously, it is not possible to get into emotional or mental troubles for the person whose memory works as a stable positive resource.
When Dr. Erickson suggests Monde to recall a particular event from her past he does that in such a manner that delivers a metaphorical meaning: "Make your memory work according to certain criterions, make it to be such and such and then all your problems will be resolved automatically". When the criterions are presented one after another they get summarized and compose a special formula. So, what are those criterions? They are sequenced in the fragments 4 – 8 of the transcript? We offer you the words from the transcript in their original sequence and before there are the criterions that are embodied in those words.
fragment 4
* The first mention of the memory, the words "can deal" point that the person should work and be not passive but active:
... so that your unconscious can deal with that vast store of memories that you have ...
* The suggestion that at any moment the memory should serve for well-being of the person, it should make the person comfortable but quite realistically:
... I'd like to have you feel very comfortable and while you are in the trance I would like to have you feel coolness not too cold but just coolness ( pause) just enough coolness so that you might want it to get just a bit warmer ...
fragment 5
* Analogy between memory and a highway that means that the memory should be structured as a road - uninterrupted, sequenced, there is a beginning point and a goal, there can be a stop but not for long, being at the road we can look around, at the road people are moving actively, etc.:
... it is as if you are traveling a highway passing this scene, that scene in your life ...
* From this point the criterions are appearing one by one. And the very first is that the memory should be positive emotionally:
... and perhaps something very nice that you could recall
* The second criterion is the ecological one, the memory should be free of the latest associations:
... that you haven't thought about for years ...
* The third criterion is that there should be a sense of interest - a special mental and emotional state:
... it'd be most interesting if you would find
* The fourth criterion is the time frame:
... some childhood infantile memory ...
* The second criterion is repeated:
... that you haven't thought of for years ...
* An example and an indirect suggestion of the fifth criterion - the memory should be about some event where the subject was active, growing and developing as a human-being:
... such as the time when you discovered you could stand up
fragment 6
* An important addition to the fifth criterion - this activity and development should change subject's view of the whole world and this change should be positive and motivating:
... and the entire world looked different the world suddenly takes on a wonderful look when you stand up and are no longer creeping then older you bent over and looked at the world from between your lags so you would have another view of this world look that you looked at and found so interesting ...
fragment 7
* The sixth criterion - the recalled event and the memory should be laconic, there should be well formed parts:
... I would like to have you single out some one thing ...
* The seventh criterion - the recalled event and the memory should be interesting for some other people:
... that you could talk to me about, that you talk to strangers about, and you could share
* And again, it should be positive emotionally:
... something very pleasing very charming ...
fragment 8
* And again about comfortable state now-here as an analog of comfortable memory, also here is a presupposition that if the memory is not so comfortable, the current comfort can be spread over the experiences.
... and just as you're spreading your feeling of cool comfort you can spread a feeling of warmth and comfort over your experiences 'cause they do radiate.
The mention of "cool comfort... warmth and comfort" at the beginning of memory work and at the end makes a cycle, so that the comfort becomes a symbol of comfortable and resourceful memory.
Those seven criterions when presented in such an order limit the choice and prevent undesirable associations. That is how the mechanism of unconscious choice works. When, first, the subject is asked to recall something pleasant then all the unpleasant memories are moved aside. So when at the second step the subject is asked to recall something interesting then he / she unconsciously will make choice among pleasant memories. So in result we will get more or less interesting memory but for sure it will be a pleasant one. This way we summarize the criterions and the sequence of the criterions become most important part of the technique.
This means that in practice most important criterion should be put first. For example, if we compare two sequences:
1. "Please, recall something pleasant, something interesting ..."
2. "Please, recall something interesting, something pleasant ..."
In the first example hearing the word "pleasant" subject can think of something uninteresting but it will be still pleasant. In the second example hearing the word "interesting" subject can think about something interesting but unpleasant that can interfere with the therapy.
This sequence of seven criterions works as a special algorithm and can be used in trance work as well as in the therapy in waking state. This algorithm is especially valuable in brief therapy. The unconsciousness of the patient will get this sequence as macro-suggestion and the resourceful state will be more available.
http://www.openmeta.org/files/100239/presentation.doc
The Paths of Ericksonian knowledge: Deepening, Widening the Boundaries, Going Beyond
and Existing Forever.
A report written for the 8th International Congress on Ericksonian Approaches to Hypnosis and Psychotherapy
* An important addition to the fifth criterion - this activity and development should change subject's view of the whole world and this change should be positive and motivating:
... and the entire world looked different the world suddenly takes on a wonderful look when you stand up and are no longer creeping then older you bent over and looked at the world from between your lags so you would have another view of this world look that you looked at and found so interesting ...
fragment 7
* The sixth criterion - the recalled event and the memory should be laconic, there should be well formed parts:
... I would like to have you single out some one thing ...
* The seventh criterion - the recalled event and the memory should be interesting for some other people:
... that you could talk to me about, that you talk to strangers about, and you could share
* And again, it should be positive emotionally:
... something very pleasing very charming ...
fragment 8
* And again about comfortable state now-here as an analog of comfortable memory, also here is a presupposition that if the memory is not so comfortable, the current comfort can be spread over the experiences.
... and just as you're spreading your feeling of cool comfort you can spread a feeling of warmth and comfort over your experiences 'cause they do radiate.
The mention of "cool comfort... warmth and comfort" at the beginning of memory work and at the end makes a cycle, so that the comfort becomes a symbol of comfortable and resourceful memory.
Those seven criterions when presented in such an order limit the choice and prevent undesirable associations. That is how the mechanism of unconscious choice works. When, first, the subject is asked to recall something pleasant then all the unpleasant memories are moved aside. So when at the second step the subject is asked to recall something interesting then he / she unconsciously will make choice among pleasant memories. So in result we will get more or less interesting memory but for sure it will be a pleasant one. This way we summarize the criterions and the sequence of the criterions become most important part of the technique.
This means that in practice most important criterion should be put first. For example, if we compare two sequences:
1. "Please, recall something pleasant, something interesting ..."
2. "Please, recall something interesting, something pleasant ..."
In the first example hearing the word "pleasant" subject can think of something uninteresting but it will be still pleasant. In the second example hearing the word "interesting" subject can think about something interesting but unpleasant that can interfere with the therapy.
This sequence of seven criterions works as a special algorithm and can be used in trance work as well as in the therapy in waking state. This algorithm is especially valuable in brief therapy. The unconsciousness of the patient will get this sequence as macro-suggestion and the resourceful state will be more available.
http://www.openmeta.org/files/100239/presentation.doc
The Paths of Ericksonian knowledge: Deepening, Widening the Boundaries, Going Beyond
and Existing Forever.
A report written for the 8th International Congress on Ericksonian Approaches to Hypnosis and Psychotherapy