МифОМодели ↑
metanymous в посте Openmeta (оригинал в ЖЖ)
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Ну собственно ритмы нужны для "объективного контроля и усиления доказательств". Типа там - это не вредно, это круто, это действительно изменяет процессы, это полезно, это похлеще дКВ и т.п.
Ну а с другой стороны - стоит проанализировать процесс синтеза (выхватывания) картинок - описать модель - так больше ничего и не надо.
Все эти предварительные догадки, описание/получение сенсорного опыта о возможной модели, выбор терминов/понятий являются МифомОМодели. Но фактически они-то и определяют и какая получится модель, и как ее возможно применять. Фактически, это и ЕСТЬ модель.
И мы с этим процессом все еще совершенно не разобрались, находимся там же где и были в самом начале опенметы, и это весьма драматично. Если мы не разберемся с МифомОМодели или ПервичнымМоделированием ну... не знаю. Моодели нам будут недоступны.
Почему это так сложно? А это потому, для осознания процессов/феноменов ПервичногоМоделирования (а по моему мнению, это и есть самые сердцевинные ментальные процессы, это то, как мы что-то понимаем, формируем опыт - нужен не изощренный ум и какие-то сверх хитрые приемы, а точно наоборот - какой-то простой, совершенно конкретный бесхитростный взгляд) нужен трюк, подобый (*)возможности увидеть свой собственный затылок в зеркало.
В настоящий момент модель ~ТретьегоВнимания находится на стадии ПервичногоМоделирования.
Дешевый вариант - домашний ЭлектроЭнцефалоГраф, правда пока только Альфу показывает
http://cooler.irk.ru/cl040404.html
OpenEEG - т.е. расшифровывая все это - "домашний ЭлектроЭнцефалоГраф".
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Да, посмотрел, здорово. Но нам надо мерить то, как слово превращается в сенсорный опыт (и обратно). А это другой уровень процессов.
4 комментария
сначала старые сначала новые
1. Согласен, что нужно разнообразно позаниматься собственно моделированием, чтобы хоть что-то начинать говорить о мооделировании. Иначе это трёп, не основанный на реальной жизни.
2. Согласен, что без описания модель -- это не модель вообще. Понятизация как раз и делает модель моделью, т.е. фиксирует в Знании из бесконечного разнообразия Опыта только сущностные черты, бесконечно обедняя Опыт, но делая возможным его воспроизведение пришельцами. Сенсорно-вербальный декодер прекращает говорить об опыте часами, а формулирует только то, что нужно. Понятийная Бритва Оккама для чувственного моря. Это и есть моделирование: удержание двух фокусов, Опыта и Знания.
3. А вот, например -- нейрология инсайта. Инсайт, это разве не нахождение Паттерна?! В данном случае -- вербального паттерна. Но нейрозона в правом полушарии. http://www.plosbiology.org/plosonline/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020111
4. Оффтопик: мои письма доходят? Я до сих пор не получил ответа на свое письмо от 7 апреля. Прошу откликнуться.
2. Согласен, что без описания модель -- это не модель вообще. Понятизация как раз и делает модель моделью, т.е. фиксирует в Знании из бесконечного разнообразия Опыта только сущностные черты, бесконечно обедняя Опыт, но делая возможным его воспроизведение пришельцами. Сенсорно-вербальный декодер прекращает говорить об опыте часами, а формулирует только то, что нужно. Понятийная Бритва Оккама для чувственного моря. Это и есть моделирование: удержание двух фокусов, Опыта и Знания.
3. А вот, например -- нейрология инсайта. Инсайт, это разве не нахождение Паттерна?! В данном случае -- вербального паттерна. Но нейрозона в правом полушарии. http://www.plosbiology.org/plosonline/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020111
4. Оффтопик: мои письма доходят? Я до сих пор не получил ответа на свое письмо от 7 апреля. Прошу откликнуться.
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1. dKV i praktika smotrienia SIRDS karinok eto obratno protivopolozhnye nevrophisiologichekie processy. dKV - vospriatie fona. SIRDS - vydelenie objecta iz fona.
2. citatata iz vashego article na insight:
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The researchers then analyzed the EEG recordings to look for differences between insight and noninsight solutions in brain wave activity. The researchers found that 0.3 seconds before the subjects indicated solutions achieved through insight, there was a burst of neural activity of one particular type: high-frequency (gamma band) activity that is often thought to reflect complex cognitive processing. This activity was also mapped to the aSTG of the RH, providing compelling convergence across experiments and methods.
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2.1 a vot vam citata iz abstracta "Electrophysiological correlates of a visual 3 dimensional illusion"
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The subjective difference between perceiving the same stimulus as a 2-dimensional random collection of dots vs. as a coherent 3-dimensional surface has to be brought about by a corresponding difference at the level of neurophysiology. In this study, we attempted to find out how such a subjective difference is reflected in the electrophysiological responses of the brain. 10 healthy right handed adults participated in the study. EEG was digitally recorded using 20 scalp electrodes and 2 EOG electrodes.
<---skipped due to irrelevance---->
The results indicate that the difference at the phenomenological level between the 2D and 3D percept is reflected at the electrophysiological level as an increase of gamma (36-44Hz) activity, especially over the occipital electrode sites. No significant changes at the alpha bands were detected. The present results support the hypothesis that 40 Hz activity is associated with global and integrated perceptual states. 40 Hz activity may thus contribute to the binding of visual experience into one coherent phenomenological whole.
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2.2 correliacia mezhdu processami vospiratia prostranstva i vysshimi funkciami, takikmi kak intuicia (insight) tut ochevidna.
a teper' vozvrashiaemsia k tomu zhe Castanede :)
2. citatata iz vashego article na insight:
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The researchers then analyzed the EEG recordings to look for differences between insight and noninsight solutions in brain wave activity. The researchers found that 0.3 seconds before the subjects indicated solutions achieved through insight, there was a burst of neural activity of one particular type: high-frequency (gamma band) activity that is often thought to reflect complex cognitive processing. This activity was also mapped to the aSTG of the RH, providing compelling convergence across experiments and methods.
-------
--
2.1 a vot vam citata iz abstracta "Electrophysiological correlates of a visual 3 dimensional illusion"
---
The subjective difference between perceiving the same stimulus as a 2-dimensional random collection of dots vs. as a coherent 3-dimensional surface has to be brought about by a corresponding difference at the level of neurophysiology. In this study, we attempted to find out how such a subjective difference is reflected in the electrophysiological responses of the brain. 10 healthy right handed adults participated in the study. EEG was digitally recorded using 20 scalp electrodes and 2 EOG electrodes.
<---skipped due to irrelevance---->
The results indicate that the difference at the phenomenological level between the 2D and 3D percept is reflected at the electrophysiological level as an increase of gamma (36-44Hz) activity, especially over the occipital electrode sites. No significant changes at the alpha bands were detected. The present results support the hypothesis that 40 Hz activity is associated with global and integrated perceptual states. 40 Hz activity may thus contribute to the binding of visual experience into one coherent phenomenological whole.
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2.2 correliacia mezhdu processami vospiratia prostranstva i vysshimi funkciami, takikmi kak intuicia (insight) tut ochevidna.
a teper' vozvrashiaemsia k tomu zhe Castanede :)
prodolzhaem...
http://www.lunarsight.com/glossary.htm
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"Gamma - associated with information-rich task processing & high-level information processing [NEU]; "'For scientists who study the human brain, even its simplest act of perception is an event of astonishing intricacy. 40 Hz brain activity may be a kind of binding mechanism', said Dr. Rodolfo Llinas a professor of neuroscience at New York University. Llinas believes that the 40-cycle-per-second wave serves to connect structures in the cortex where advanced information processing occurs, and the thalamus, a lower brain region where complex relay & integrative functions are carried out." [NME via NEU]; Used in conjunction with 22 HZ for 'out of body' travel [EWI via DW]; Also used with 22 HZ for psychic healing. [FAH via DW]; "40--Hz activity varies from 38.8 to 40.1-Hz, regardless of the electrode site. The average frequency is in the ~39.5-Hz range. In summary, when the body is profoundly relaxed & the mind is in a state of high focus and concentration, 20 & 40-Hz brain activity can be seen in the raw and quantitative EEG of some subjects. It is possible that 18 to 22-Hz Beta & possibly 40-Hz neurofeedback training may help create a "relaxed body/focused mind" state of consciousness." [DW]; Activity in the ectosylvian & lateral cortex, medial geniculate, reticular formation, center median thalamus & hippocampus [ROW via DW]; Confirming Sheer et al.'s work,compared the EEG of middle- & high-I.Q. subjects during mental multiplication activity. A 40-Hz rhythm occurred just prior to the subject's answering the question. Forty--Hz pulses are thought to lead to synchronization + coordination of neurons assigned to the processing of incoming sensory stimulation. Put in "computerese," 40-Hz may be the brain's "operating system" frequency [GIA via DW] Involved In The Processing Of Psi Information (see note) [EMC]
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http://brain.web-us.com/40hz/default.htm
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Recordings of neurons in visual cortex show that synchronization at about 40 Hz links parts of the cortex excited by the same object, and not those excited by different objects, implicating in gamma rhythms in binding. For instance the color, shape, movement and location of an object are processed in different parts of the visual cortex, and these features of an object need to be reunited into a single entity. This is known as the binding problem, and gamma rhythms are thought to provide a solution.
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http://www.lunarsight.com/glossary.htm
---------------------------------------
"Gamma - associated with information-rich task processing & high-level information processing [NEU]; "'For scientists who study the human brain, even its simplest act of perception is an event of astonishing intricacy. 40 Hz brain activity may be a kind of binding mechanism', said Dr. Rodolfo Llinas a professor of neuroscience at New York University. Llinas believes that the 40-cycle-per-second wave serves to connect structures in the cortex where advanced information processing occurs, and the thalamus, a lower brain region where complex relay & integrative functions are carried out." [NME via NEU]; Used in conjunction with 22 HZ for 'out of body' travel [EWI via DW]; Also used with 22 HZ for psychic healing. [FAH via DW]; "40--Hz activity varies from 38.8 to 40.1-Hz, regardless of the electrode site. The average frequency is in the ~39.5-Hz range. In summary, when the body is profoundly relaxed & the mind is in a state of high focus and concentration, 20 & 40-Hz brain activity can be seen in the raw and quantitative EEG of some subjects. It is possible that 18 to 22-Hz Beta & possibly 40-Hz neurofeedback training may help create a "relaxed body/focused mind" state of consciousness." [DW]; Activity in the ectosylvian & lateral cortex, medial geniculate, reticular formation, center median thalamus & hippocampus [ROW via DW]; Confirming Sheer et al.'s work,compared the EEG of middle- & high-I.Q. subjects during mental multiplication activity. A 40-Hz rhythm occurred just prior to the subject's answering the question. Forty--Hz pulses are thought to lead to synchronization + coordination of neurons assigned to the processing of incoming sensory stimulation. Put in "computerese," 40-Hz may be the brain's "operating system" frequency [GIA via DW] Involved In The Processing Of Psi Information (see note) [EMC]
----
http://brain.web-us.com/40hz/default.htm
-----------------------------------------
Recordings of neurons in visual cortex show that synchronization at about 40 Hz links parts of the cortex excited by the same object, and not those excited by different objects, implicating in gamma rhythms in binding. For instance the color, shape, movement and location of an object are processed in different parts of the visual cortex, and these features of an object need to be reunited into a single entity. This is known as the binding problem, and gamma rhythms are thought to provide a solution.
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Gamma rhythms occur in humans and other mammals following sensory stimuli. They often occur in brief runs in these responses. "Induced rhythms" at 50-60 Hz were first described in olfactory bulb by Adrian [1]. They have since been found in: olfactory [4], visual [3a,3b,6-8,11,22], auditory [13,16], somatosensory [2] and motor cortex [17,19,21].
"EEG data recorded from 22 frequent gamblers while they
played a laboratory, video-gambling game. On each hand,
four "cards" were presented sequentially in the center of a
video screen using an interstimulus interval of 2600 ms and
a stimulus duration of 330 ms in counterbalanced wager and
nonwager blocks. Then, subjects guessed which card would
later be selected as the target by a computerized, random
process. Guessing accuracy was at chance level, p = .465,
one-tailed binomial. EEG analyses focussed on 40 Hz power
in the 150-500 msec latency window following delivery of
the target and nontarget cards. ANOVAs indicated greater
40 Hz power for targets than for nontargets over left-
frontal scalp in both wager and nonwager conditions,
F (1/21) = 7.87, p = .005, and over the right-posterior
scalp in the wager condition, F (1/21) = 5.81, p = .013,
both one-tailed.
These findings indicate that
1) 40 Hz activity is involved in the processing of psi
information.
2) the attentional mechanisms of the brain utilized in
focused arousal are also utilized in processing psi
information in the wager condition, although the
left-frontal effect, found in both wager and nonwager
conditions, is unlike the posterior-parietal locus of
40 Hz effects observed by Sheer. Neither the left
frontal nor the right parietal loci of effects overlay
primary sensory areas of the cerebral cortex,
suggesting that the 40 Hz effects we observed were
not due to sensory processes.
The present EEG findings are consistent with the notion of
unconscious or preconscious psi. Guessing accuracy was at
chance level and yet 40 Hz activity following target and
nontarget stimuli differed significantly. Thus, although
conscious behavior was not influenced by psi information,
the differential brain responses indicated recognition at
some level that the stimuli belonged to different
categories. These findings in the frequency domain support
and extend our previous findings with event-related brain
potentials."
"EEG data recorded from 22 frequent gamblers while they
played a laboratory, video-gambling game. On each hand,
four "cards" were presented sequentially in the center of a
video screen using an interstimulus interval of 2600 ms and
a stimulus duration of 330 ms in counterbalanced wager and
nonwager blocks. Then, subjects guessed which card would
later be selected as the target by a computerized, random
process. Guessing accuracy was at chance level, p = .465,
one-tailed binomial. EEG analyses focussed on 40 Hz power
in the 150-500 msec latency window following delivery of
the target and nontarget cards. ANOVAs indicated greater
40 Hz power for targets than for nontargets over left-
frontal scalp in both wager and nonwager conditions,
F (1/21) = 7.87, p = .005, and over the right-posterior
scalp in the wager condition, F (1/21) = 5.81, p = .013,
both one-tailed.
These findings indicate that
1) 40 Hz activity is involved in the processing of psi
information.
2) the attentional mechanisms of the brain utilized in
focused arousal are also utilized in processing psi
information in the wager condition, although the
left-frontal effect, found in both wager and nonwager
conditions, is unlike the posterior-parietal locus of
40 Hz effects observed by Sheer. Neither the left
frontal nor the right parietal loci of effects overlay
primary sensory areas of the cerebral cortex,
suggesting that the 40 Hz effects we observed were
not due to sensory processes.
The present EEG findings are consistent with the notion of
unconscious or preconscious psi. Guessing accuracy was at
chance level and yet 40 Hz activity following target and
nontarget stimuli differed significantly. Thus, although
conscious behavior was not influenced by psi information,
the differential brain responses indicated recognition at
some level that the stimuli belonged to different
categories. These findings in the frequency domain support
and extend our previous findings with event-related brain
potentials."