Хм. Я говорил о схеме - ответ-вопрос-ответ

:P and she went that's crazy you do everything why wouldn't you be artistic I'm not, I can't I'm not artistic :P suddenly I went this sounds more like a post-hypnotic suggestion than reality :P so she bought a bunch of art supplies took me up in a room and she took pastels and said just draw :P and I looked at the paper and went .....[гримасничает] look at her and went [гримасничает] she said draw and I went [гримасничает] :P and she took the rip the stuff of the side and just took it went nyeeeeee like that and then she pull out -this can of stuff and went tssssssss:P and I went [изображает нюханье] :P suddenly I felt like drawing :P now as it turns out... then I came to London and I was I was sitting on the Thames and there were this guy sitting on the Themes :P and he was drawing the buildings on the other side and the trees and I mean it was very detailed and even the lighting was the same and the shadows and everything and I was looking at it like this :P and I said to him I said I don't get it :P how do you get the picture that across the river on the canvas :P and he looked at me his pupils dilated like every deep trance subject I ever worked with and he went I don't ... and I went Well isn't that you sitting here and he went Well it's not like that :P he said What I do is see that big hand in the sky and I went 'right I said are you on something and he went nah, not right now :P then he said the hand in the sky is got the same :P color that I have :P and he goes the way I get color is I mix together colors because it pretty simple you start with 3 colors and you mix them together and you pretty much all the others :P and unless you like me and you cheat :P cause I found ways of cheating I use my wife's make-up :P till I found out my first drawing with it cost me 775 dollars :P but the lips were perfect :P so I must state that cost me alot :P because I I had to go buy new stuff and that's when you go to the make up store and you're guy and you go in and go 'I need this but I need it slightly darker :P and they always look at you and they go no this will match your skin just fine :P and you go it's not for me and they go it's San-Francisco you don't have to worry about that :P but what happened was is that the guy described to me in detail how is the hand in the sky moves there is wire that comes out of the sky down to this hand and as this hand moves this hand matches it :P now suddenly in an instance something inside my head went uuuuuh :P it was the same expirience I had when I found out good spellers make pictures of the words :P because you know :P I tried to make pictures of the words but I make them on the back of my hand :P they called that cheating :P making pictures in your head is not cheating :P now if you gonna spell words like the word caught :P you can't sound it out :P but if you make a picture of it and you copy it down :P now I took a bunch of learning disabled children actually, I think they were teaching disabled :P that's my theory my theory is that if you don't tell people how to do something they won't know how to :P and instead of teaching them phonetics I took all the worse spellers on the fifth grade :P and I set them down and I said you know why you're here oh yeah cause we're stupid now, I said yep :P but not as stupid as me :P so since you're stupid you have to learn to cheat and not get caught :P and they looked at me and went what and I said let me show you how it's done :P so I held up the word color and I had the -cred and the o green and the l blue and the next zero oh I had something pink or something and the r was a different color :P and because you guys don't even color the same way we do :P you guys are going where is the u :P and I go it's in england [08:57]

:P aaaa today aaaa I want to do something a little bit different aaaa :P in neuro-linguistic programming the foundation of the entire field ..... is based on a simple notion :P long time ago aaaa :P i when i was doing hypnosis, I, suddenly dorned on me :P that, if you could hypnotise people and get them to do things that they couldn't do normally :P what what was going on :P and and I started thinking about it in a much broder sense because there were many people who very talented at certain things :P and, NLP gives you the ability to ask very precise questions about consciousness :P and, it started out with spelling there were kids that that could spell and kids that couldn't spell I happen to be one of the once that had no idea how to -spell most words :P because they told me that you should spell them (up) phonetically :P and you can't even spell phonetics phonetically that its comes out p-ho-nics :P and this morning on television there was one of the politicians here locally announcing how they had to go back to using phonetics as foundation of learning to read :P and unfortunatelly in english most words aren't really that phonetic words like caught :P are realy cu-nd-ght :P that we have silent letters and long vowels and all kinds of strange things that sound more like a hypnotic induction :P than anything else :P now it went further than that I think alot of my teachers were actually a very vicious hypnotists :P that they did things to me for example :P when I was I was in a fourth grade :P they came and they handed me a little plastic flute about this big .... and a piece of shit music and and on shit music was a wonderful song called yankee doodle dandy :P not one of my favourites :P and they said this is a this is every good boy does fine and the spaces were face and and I didn't even know what they were talking about :P and they said learn to play this song :P: and I went home and I blew in a thing and it sounded horrible so I didn't do it :P then the day before we were supposed to be tested on it I I tryded I tried to remember the song I went let's see it's yankee doodle something or other and I went (звуки игры) :P and I took it and I went into the class and all this kids went (звуки игры) and I went (звуки игры) and they looked at me and they said you are not musical took my flute away said I couldn't be in a band and said you'd never learn to play music :P now since then I've written an equivavelnt of over thirty-five symphonies :P and the musics on the you know the personal enhancement series and all of hose hypnosis tapes and all kinds of other things :P I've written a music for television commercial when I worked for ad agencies I scored a whole symphony with orcherstra :P so they weren't exactly right :P but then [...] stubborn :P they also did something else to me they, they took me in a art class :P I got in trouble in one class so they pulled me out of class and they said the only thing I can do was art :P so they stuck me in a art class because I got in a fight with a teacher I was a bad boy :P and the art teacher stuck a fruit ball on a table :P and she said to she said she said everyone is going to draw a fruit ball :P and they handed us these... :P I don't know they were they were colored cranes or something :P and and I drew something that looked like somebody sneezed color onto the paper :P the guy next to me drew something that looked like a photograph :P and I kept looking at it going [...] how's he doing this you know and he was like doo-doo-doo-doo [напевает и изображает размахи кисточкой] shading everything :P and the teacher came up and took it and she shook her head and looked at me disgustingly she said wooooo [мотает головой]. You're not artistic :P and I went 'not artistic' [качает головой] :P when I was 29 years old roughly walking down the street of new york :P I was staying at the barbason plasa and my wife and I were walking down the street and we walked in front of an art store and my wife said to me she said uh let's get some stuff and paint :P and I looked at her and went I am not artistic

Ответ на выше поставленный вопрос таков: первичный феноменологический "квант" вопросной модели сознания есть: ВОПРОС_ОТВЕТ.

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Но так как мы преполагаем ответ прежде чем задать вопрос, то получается ответ-вопрос-ответ?

Очень размытый/неопределенный термин термин "не заметить информацию". Что вы вкладываете в него?

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...Чтобы добиться исключительных успехов в коммуникации, вы нуждаетесь только в трех вещах. Мы открыли, что в поведении психотерапевтических корифеев (и талантливых руководителей, продавцов) существуют три основные стереотипа:

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1) Они знают, какого результата хотят добиться.

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2) Они достаточно гибки в своем поведении. Вы должны уметь генерировать у себя множество поведенческих реакций, чтобы добиться от человека такого ответа, который вам нужен.

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3) Они обладают достаточным сенсорным опытом для того, чтобы заметить, получили ли они ответ, которого добивались

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если человек не заметил "информацию", то неопределенность системы не понизилась, а значит, информации и не было. Значит, нет и обратной связи.

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Когда мы вносим в систему изменения, контекст общения, а этого не может не происходить, то наше "не заметил" это не есть характеристика реакций системы на наше на нее влияние. Итак, если мы "не замечаем" изменения системы от нашего на нее влияния, это не значит, что система не предоставляет нам фидбэк

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Фидбек - это реакция/ответ системы на наше на нее воздействие и тогда возможна чувствительность/нечувствительность к ней. И тогда такое допущение "переносит/переключает" наше внимание на систему, на ее реакции/ответы при нашем влиянии на нее.

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Поражение/неудача - это типа характеристика наших действий по достижению наших результатов. Как видно с таким допущением, система с которой мы взаимодействуем не включена с нами в петлю/контур. Мы не получаем от нее информации, которая могла бы корректировать наши действия.

И кстати, а насколько правомерен перевод "feedback" как "обратная связь"?

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Ответ очевиден.

Дело не в слове информация.

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Здесь: http://metapractice.livejournal.com/368091.html?thread=9510619#t9510619

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вы писали о восприятие наблюдателем изменения или неизменения среды

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Зависит ли понятие "обратная связь" от реакции субъекта, ее воспринимающего, или нет?

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Понятие не зависит

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Проигнорированная обратная связь остается таковой?

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Что значит проигнорированная?

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Необходимо уточнение, что есть эта самая ОС

Хорошо

обратная связь это информация о протекании процессов в систем.

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Хорошо. Вы определили ОС связь именно так. Тогда, любая ли информация о протекании процессов в системе есть Обратная связь?

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Есть у вас точная цитата этой идеи/пресуппозиции у БиГов? Т.е где идет такая же/похожая формулировка.

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В лягушках 14 Я выбрал две из них (перевод из печатной книги):

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[3-0885] If you don't explicitly make the symptom a signal to negotiate, the person's conscious mind' will call it a "failure" if the symptom comes back. When the symptom is identified as a signal, the client begins to pay attention to it as a message. It probably always was a message anyway, but they never thought about it that way. By doing this, they begin to have a feedback mechanism. They discover that they only get the signal at certain times.

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[3-0885] Если вы не сделаете симптом, сказав об этом открыто, сигналом к повторению процесса, то сознание пациента всегда назовет новое появление симптома "неудача". Когда симптом распознается как сигнал, то клиент уделяет ему внимание как СООБЩЕНИЮ. Вероятно, он всегда был сообщением, но он никогда не рассматривал его с этой точки зрения. Поступая таким образом, он приобретает механизм обратной связи. Он открывает для себя, что всего лишь в определенное время он получил определенный сигнал.

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[3-01070] All the tools that we offer you are very powerful and elegant. They are the minimum that I think you need to operate, no matter what psychotheology you were previously trained in.

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[3-01070] Все методики, которые мы вам предлагаем - эффективны и изящны. Это - минимум, с помощью которого, как я думаю, вы можете действовать, независимо от того, внутри какой психологии вы до этого воспитывались.

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[3-01071] If you decide that you want to fail with this material, it's possible to. There are two ways to fail. I think you ought to be aware of what those are, so that you can make a choice about how you are going to fail if you decide to.

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[3-01071] Если вы примите решение, что у вас ничего не получится, то возможно, так и будет. Есть два способа потерпеть неудачу. Я думаю, вы должны знать, в чем они состоят, чтобы выбрать способ, с помощью которого вы потерпите неудачу, раз уж вы на это решились.

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[3-01072] One way is to be extremely rigid. You can go through exactly the steps that you saw and heard us go through here, without any sensory experience, without any feedback from your clients. That will guarantee that you will fail. That's the way most people fail.

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[3-01072] Первый способ - это быть очень жестким. Вы можете провести клиента по всем тем ступеням, которые мы вам продемонстрировали, но без малейшего опыта восприятия, без использования обратной связи от клиента. Это гарантирует вам провал. Это - наиболее распространенный способ провалиться.

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[3-01073] The second way you can fail is by being really incongruent. If there's a part of you that really doesn't believe that phobias can be done in three minutes, but you decide to try it anyway, that incongruency will show up in your non-verbal communication, and that will blow the whole thing.

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[3-01073] Второй способ провалиться - это быть совершенно несогласованным. Если у вас есть такая часть личности, которая действительно не верит в то, что фобию можно вылечить за три минуты, но вы все равно решите испробовать метод, то несогласованность проявится в ваших невербальных реакциях, и это все испортит.

Хм. А как согласуется неоднородность и уплотнение?